George Zimmerman case open thread

Consider this an open thread for discussion concerning the ongoing Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman drama in Florida. No racial slurs, thanks.

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119 thoughts on “George Zimmerman case open thread

  1. CWNY and others say that Rousseau’s primitive man, currently represented by the every-black-man, is the liberals’ new Christ figure. They say that we have replaced the worship of the God-man with the worship of the “innocent” brute and hence our racial troubles. Exempli gratia, skittles and tea have replaced bread and wine in a “Christian” communion in Massachusetts:

    Christians express solidarity with thugs and hoodlums, and replace the bread and wine with Trayvon’s ice tea and skittles

    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/021970.html

    But I cannot see liberals giving faith to anything but themselves. They are self-righteous narcissists. They have no doubt in their own infallibility and violently rebuke those who “sin” against them. I think it is more the case that they are placing themselves at the center of worship. So gross is their distortion that even they see it and attempt to divert attention from it with stunts like the skittles and tea.

    The supposed objects of their respect are only props. Today it is Trayvon Martin, yesterday it was Kony, before that, MLK, tomorrow it will be someone else. They are only consistent in one thing: self-love.

  2. Zimmerman’s 911 call.

    I’m not really sure there’s much that can be added to GLP’s exhaustive and excellent coverage. There is little doubt that he muttered “f**king punks” (and not “coons”… do even WNs use that word anymore?) under his breath at around 2:33 of that audio. He seems to think at a couple points that Martin is high; this coupled with revelations about Martin’s suspension from school and (now) unseemly twitters to him, and eyewitness testimony that Martin attacked him, may explain why Zimmerman was “profiling” him: he was a stranger behaving strangely in a high crime gated community (so much for “gates”). He didn’t count on Zimmerman packing heat.

  3. Good lord, thank you for opening this thread so that all discussion of the matter can be confined here and nowhere else. Now, STOP TALKING ABOUT TRAYVON MARTIN. NO ONE CARES.

    • Well, first of all, this is the first time anyone here has mentioned.

      Second, lots of people *do* care. They care so much that they’re protesting, rioting, giving speeches on the House floor dressed in hoodies and sunglasses, and generally using it as an excuse to promote loathing of whites, both by others and by themselves, and policies intended to reflect that loathing. They care so much that they’re talking about forming militias and actively putting bounties on Zimmerman’s head and conspiring to harass the wrong people for it.

      If people don’t care about this, they ought to.

    • Odd outburst Samson. If memory serves, you live in Canada, which is largely free from the vibrant blessings of diversity we face down here. I, for one, care very much about the case, not least about which narrative (“evil white racist uses innocent black angel for target practice” or “black juvenille deliquent, true to form, attacks hispanic neighborhood watch captain and gets what’s coming to him”) will ulitmately play out in the minds of the general public, who (regrettably) are still allowed the right to vote.

      • Fine; I’m sorry I tried to ruin the party. I’m just sick of seeing my favourite blogs tied up with post after post about a story that essentially amounts, as far as I can see, to “black kid gets killed because he’s a punk. Nothing to see here.” I’m sick of racial politics in general, I guess.

        which narrative… will ulitmately play out in the minds of the general public

        Don’t you already know? Anyhow, I’ll leave you guys to it.

      • Don’t you already know?

        The transparently false racial Kabuki Theater that we have sufferred under for more than a generation cannot really last. Al Sharpton is a clown, a race-hustler, and also much worse. The day the mainstream media stops taking him seriously is a) the day that we can, in the words of Eric Holder, cease being “cowards” and have an open and honest discussion about race; and b) a day that eventually will come. There is no harm in hoping that that day could be today.

  4. The deepest and most profound meaning of all this is that a brown can shoot a black and whites will get the blame.

    Only in Amerika.

    Love CWNY, btw.

  5. This issue is another reminder (as if we need another on top of the dozens we get every day) that whites will remain under attack until good men stand up and stop it. Christians have been ignoring the gross unfairness against whites for way too long. We will be a minority in our own countries soon and there is no indication that things will get any better for us under non-white rule. Time to stop it now.

  6. Many WN sites are calling attention to the lack of attention given by the MSM to the murders of an elderly white couple by a black man, and the murder of a 19 yo white college student by three black men.

    I’m conflicted as to where my position ought to be, as a Christian, who is supposed to believe in forgiveness and mercy, and then as a White woman, who has had it “up to here” with media misrepresentation, multiculturalism, Muslims (known and taught many who were outwardly OK but seething with a sense of superiority over “us”), and black violence and false outrage over every slight real or perceived. I don’t think Jesus wanted us to roll over and die when he said “turn the other cheek.” It’s these finer points of philosophy that get me in a tangle sometimes.

    I can only hope that the Liberal Left Media will crash and burn over this, but they have the hold over what is learned in schools and the news, so it’s a small hope at that.

  7. jewelledcranberry,

    Jesus said to forgive your personal enemies (inimicos) not your national enemies (hostes), so there’s your answer.

    A practical way to help you decide on this issue might be to take it to extremes. Would you stand by and not protect your family from aggressors? No real man would do that, of course. Women and children need a man’s protection. That is why pacifists — to include those guys who let their families be molested at the airport — are not men.

    • Makes sense. My own White pride feelings, to which I freely admit after years of living among black people, Muslims, and Hispanics in various urban areas has left me tired of feeling bad for them, but always I wondered if I shouldn’t be more forgiving or thoughtful. Teaching in urban schools was an eye-opener of great magnitude for me; most minorities do sit on the left of the curve and resort to violence and predation on the slightest offense. I just don’t care anymore, except if they bring a fight to my door. Then it’s fight to win, and it seems like a fight is coming.

      • Pity stemming from self-righteousness is not just or righteous pity, and extrapolating what 10% of a population does as ‘most of them’ is also wrong. Many blacks are urban, but the predation is still committed by only a small subset of the whole. Whites get to live far away from their worst 10%, while blacks never get to. I only ever hear these tales of how 99% of blacks are raging semi-human jackals from people who claim to have lived in the urban core (which is not where most blacks live, though they do have a higher share living in urban areas more broadly than other races.)

      • A Lady: “… extrapolating what 10% of a population does as ‘most of them’ is … wrong. I … hear these tales of how 99% of blacks are raging semi-human jackals … .

        The 99% is silly, of course. Ten percent is closer to the truth.

        Lets us say, once and for all, that 99% of any group is not evil. Only a tiny faction of imam community issues death fatwahs. Only a tiny fraction of the male community actually murder. Only a tiny fraction of the muslim community are honor killers. Only a tiny fraction of the Pakistani community douse their wives with acid.

        The reality is that it only takes a tiny fraction of a community to make a society sick and twisted. In Norway and Sweden, only a tiny fraction of the Muslim and African refugee communities accost and brutally gang rape naive, friendly white women (or “infidel whores”, as they are called). Maybe one percent? A half a percent? But it has changed the whole mentality of indigenous Scandinavian women about walking around alone at night.

        You probably cannot even understand the mental oppression. Would you walk across Detroit at night? Until quite recently women could walk across Oslo at 3AM through empty streets, completely unafraid.

        And for that reason I say that a group that suckles, nurtures, or even tolerates just one percent of their number as gang rapists or murderers should be shunned. Avoiding that community should be seen as survival and self-preservation, not prejudice and discrimination.

        You are right, Lady, 99% are not bad. Only one percent are. And that makes them worth avoiding.

  8. The most interesting thing about this is the behavior of the conservative establishment. Lindsay Graham and the National Review crowd did not have to jump on the obviously absurd mainstream narrative. Why did they do so? It makes little sense. The remainder of mainstream conservatism did not have remain mute or equivocate. Why did they do so?

    These are the same people who absolutely must increase their share of the white and hispanic vote to retain their power. “They are stupid” really doesn’t cut it as an explanation—it is a deus ex machina, plus nobody is that stupid. “They are afraid of the media” is also a poor explanation. Mitt Romney will be a Klansmen whether he is or not.

    Given Obama’s predictably politically stupid remarks, this was a golden opportunity for the Rs, and they reacted not with enthusiastic attack but with fear.

  9. Bill,

    You think that the mainstream “conservative” establishment gives a hoot about you and me? Bahahaha! These guys Bush/Clinton/Obama/Romney/Gingrich/Santorum are wealthy, super powerful, and very corrupt. To these guys we exist for one thing: votes. They have proven their allegiance to money and power over us forthe last, what, 100 years or more? The conservative movement is forever on the retreat because conservatism is fighting the money power on its own turf. Money has bought the government, the media, the schools, and the minds of the people, lock, stock, and barrel. They hold everything, including a new rising base of foreign voters to pander to. You think you’ve seen betrayal? You ain’t seen nothing yet. Wait about 20 years when Whites are a clear minority, then you’ll see some scary stuff.

    • No, they don’t care about you and me, and everything you say is probably true. But they do care about power. Once there are too few whites for Republicans to win elections, where is their power going to come from? Are they all going to switch parties in 2030 or something?

      • Ralph,

        Good question. There will have to be a big lurch in one direction or the other. Either the party’s core membership will change drastically or it will be pushed completely out of power for good and another party will take its place. They cannot remain white and they know it, hence their attempts over the last couple of national elections to portray themselves as friends of and a home to minorities.

  10. Rusty, I think you kind of missed Bill’s point. Even if we’re “just votes” to these guys, what do they have to gain by by jumping in with the ant-White narrative. Lindsey Graham could march with Sharpton tomorrow and it wouldn’t peel off one non-White vote in his favor.

    Rich Lowry won’t gain one non-White subscriber to “National Review” by his uninformed diatribe. So why do they do it? I’m at a loss.

  11. “Wearing hoods for racial solidarity”. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the last time a group did that, didn’t they end up burning crosses and lynching their racial enemies?

    • PS Athanasius, I distance myself very far indeed from your further messages in which you agree with Eric Hale about supposed mixed race unions being quote freak shows unquote.

      Aside from any other more fundamental considerations — as an admirer of classic Russian literature, I could never look the shade of Alexander Pushkin in the eye if I signed on to Mr. Hale’s brand of fastidiousness!

  12. This has nothing to do with race, it’s just another 1984 liberal language change. The liberal attack is not directed at whites, it is directed at conservatives. Don’t be fooled:
    1) The attacker was not white, not even Republican, but he had a concealed carry permit (first sin)
    2) The attacker was member of an elite (people in “exclusive” gated communities) oppressors of the poor (second sin)
    3) The attacker could corruptly influence the instrument of oppression, police, to back up his story (third sin)
    4) The attack occurred in the naturally racist south (fourth sin)
    5) The state is obstinate and unrepentant of its gun extremism: concealed carry and stand your ground -whether it applies or not- (fifth sin)
    6) Didn’t they steal an election over there in favor of Satan? Of course that they will cover up the murder of an innocent minority kid. (they deserve what’s coming to them)
    7) Even if this is a murder, it’s not the perpetrator’s fault: it’s all that right wing legal framework (Don’t focus on the facts, focus on the backward society that passes those laws)
    8) It is convenient to use a black victim to feed the PR machine, so issues can be confused

  13. Cherub, very simply, because that’s where the money and the power is. Conservatives’ leaders must show that they are on the right side by constantly pledging fealty to the anti-white power base. These people are social animals, too, and don’t like to be called a racist! ignorant! bigot! supremacist! nazi! anymore than anyone else. They want to appear to be progressive and enlightened to their friends and family. It is the kiss of death to have the media call you a nasty name and they know it.

    • I was also going to say, they won’t lose any White subscribers or votes either. There’s no where else to go other than to where you and I hang out Rusty.

      The Republican party and their mouthpieces are the de facto White voice. The numbers have been crunched and the Republicans need nearly 70% of the White vote to win national office. That’s an insane amount and it will only get worse.

      Rusty, maybe we should take the “conservative” pols and their scribes at their word instead of seeing them as cynical social climbers. Thinking we
      have undercover lovers among the mainstream voices is paralyzing. Thinking others “know what we know in their hearts, but remain silent” elicits a different reaction than knowing you’re alone and calls for different tactics.

      Ralph, you too should take our opponents at their word too. If they say it’s about race then accept it and act accordingly.

      George Zimmerman knew it was about race. Even though he obviously supports the 2nd Amendment and concealed carry, he was still a registered member of the “minority grievance party”. If he had the same views and was White in Florida he’d have been a Republican.

  14. Ralph displays a perfect example of American conservative thinking. Conservatives let themselves be jerked around by ideology. They have swallowed the neo-con/liberal lie that race/ethnicity do not matter as much as politics or religion. Whites are the only peoples intelligent enough to fall for this Marxist trick and so they continue to lose everything to the invaders. The other groups, not being fooled by obvious nonsense, know who they are and what to do, and they press that white-guilt/ideology button at every opportunity. And it works.

    We are a real nation with a real heritage and we will start winning when we realize it and act like one.

  15. “They have swallowed the neo-con/liberal lie that race/ethnicity do not matter as much as politics or religion.”

    You are half right: nothing matters more than religion and faith, as it is about the ultimate end for which we are put on this earth. I am Catholic, and there is an encyclical that deals with this question:

    “Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community – however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things – whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.”

    It’s not liberal thought, and I am far from a neo-con.

    “We are a real nation with a real heritage and we will start winning when we realize it and act like one.”

    I agree, but I am not sure how do you define this nation without acknowledging, for good or bad, that it is a racial mix. Other countries exist as expressions of their ethnicities and common culture-England: land of the Anglos; Germany: land of the Germans, etc.-, not America. America has only a common culture and language, not a common racial background. This is not a value judgment, it’s how it is.

    • Really pathetic.

      Do you understand history? It is little wonder we’re losing the war, with people like this “on our side”.

    • …whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level…

      Well, there’s your escape clause, because right now being White is not allowed any value. So you’ve got a long way to follow along before you reach a normal, sane value on race. You can drop out then with no quibble from me.

      • I had the same reaction. The words Ralph quotes might serve as a stinging rebuke to our President, to his spiritual mentor, to his Attorney General, to Al Sharpton, to Jesse Jackson, etc. But how is it relevant to us? As a warning about some far distant sin some unspecified white person might be tempted by some day?

    • Thanks Ralph. The self-righteous chest thumping/RAHOWA posturing on this is disheartening, but at least it’s a small group shouting among themselves. The first comment was edifying, but still, shooting the kid? Have you people lost your minds? And the guy was not charged by the police, despite them knowing exactly what was coming from the great and good and the feds.

      And with the racial civil war predictions: why are you so worried? Don’t think your intellectual advantages will carry the day?

      • shooting the kid? Have you people lost your minds?

        Zimmerman claims it was in self-defense–claims supported by physical evidence and eyewitness testimony. I am really beginning to see this guy as a basic salt-n-light kinda guy, and therefore doubly undeserving of the New Black Panther witch hunt. If you follow through to the coverage, there are many other allegations that make his claim even more plausible. No one wants to kill in self-defense. But if you’re losing a fist fight against a physically superior opponent, one who may see you’re carrying and attempt to take your weapon, you’d have to think fast. So, no I don’t think the folks here have lost their minds.

      • Fair enough. My main complaint about this thread is the way it has become about bashing black people. The outrage here is the media inciting this guy’s murder, something commonplace enough that it doesn’t really require comment.

        Anybody know the tale of the tape on these two? Most of the published pictures make the kid look slight and Zimmerman sort of chunky. I doubt those are accidental.

      • That tape ain’t looking too good for the “he was beaten within an inch of his life” camp. Did they let him go home for a shower and a change of clothes before taking him downtown?

        Let me say again, I think Mr. Zimmerman was trying to do a good thing. But he did a bad thing. Maybe I would have done the same at that moment, but there were several points in any narrative that makes any sense at which he could have changed the course of events.

      • He was cleaned up by medics at the scene supposedly, so I don’t think there’s any reason to believe he should’ve been covered in blood by the time he reached the station. Moreover, we know now that Zimmerman’s side of the story is that the proximal cause of his decision to shoot Martin was Martin seeing and reaching for Zimmerman’s gun (which was revealed as he tried to scrabble away from Martin), not the beating itself.

        At any rate, while I can agree it was probably unwise for Zimmerman to follow Martin on foot, I can’t see that it was illegal or even particularly immoral. Martin’s apparent decision to react to this with violence, on the other hand, is (well, was).

      • This tape. I think the argument goes something like: 1) The tape shows Zimmerman’s injuries were not severe, therefore 2) the injuries were not, in fact, life threatening, therefore 3) Zimmerman did not have a justified fear for his life or of severe injury, therefore 4) the shooting was unjust.

        Obviously 3 does not follow from 1 and 2, even if they turn out to be correct.

      • The connection between 3 and the first two points is even weaker, since, by Zimmerman’s admission, the proximal cause of his decision to shoot was Martin reaching for his gun after it became visible as he was scrabbling backward to move his head off the concrete and into the grass.

      • Gabe Ruth: “Fair enough. My main complaint about this thread is the way it has become about bashing black people.”

        Please. Let us agree that the Black Community is entitled to live however it chooses. It is neither the right nor the duty of white people to dictate to the Black Community how to raise its children, how to educate them or what level of violence to tolerate (among other things).”

        I look at Detroit, Camden, East St. Louis, Atlanta and other primarily black cities as wonderful opportunities for black empowerment. Places where the Black Community can stretch its muscles, broaden its horizons, dream its big dreams and create living spaces that reflect the deepest aspirations and capabilties of their people.

        Further, I believe we should encourage all Negro people in America to make aliyah to these homelands and help their people fulfill their true and highest destiny.

        As a white man, I want to end white oppression of the Black Community and let them spend all their resources on themselves as they see fit. Call it the Villayet Solution.

      • As far as political power goes (not to mention fire power), it’s DC’s world, and we’re just living in it, same as Detroit, et al. They are victims of the general will as implemented by the great and good to an even greater extent than we are. The way that racial essentialists have of switching seamlessly back and forth between being pathetic victims of the USG’s double standards and righteous avengers of racial aggression (by proxy, of course) is awe-inspiring.

        But keep reading inane interpretations into the words of people who disagree with you if it help maintain the identity you’ve created for yourself. It’s hard enough to cope with the world we’ve made with that crutch, and discarding it would probably be suicide.

      • They are victims of the general will as implemented by the great and good to an even greater extent than we are.

        Yeah, yeah, yeah, just another variation of the “disproportionate black pathologies are YT’s fault”. Same old, same old from your crowd. We’ve heard it all a million times before.

  16. Ralph, you obviously have fallen for the “America as propositional nation” Marxist lie. Europeans have much more in common with each other genetically and historically than with other peoples. We are not a “construct” as the liberals and neocons (and now you) insist. We have a very long shared history, legal and cultural traditions, and shared assumptions about justice and society. Even modern conservatives still understand that.

    But what they have forgotten (they used to know this up until the 1960’s) is that culture only comes from the people who create it. China is the way it is because it is filled with Chinese people. Africa is the way it is because it is filled with Africans. Without westerners, there cannot possible be western culture.
    Other peoples have different interpretations of Christianity than you or I do and it’s because they are biologically different. Intelligence and proclivities are inherited and not equally shared.

    What good is your western version of Christianity if westerners are not there to uphold it? What good is any religion if you are wiped out? Do you really believe that non-western peoples give a flip about maintaining western heritage intact, about ancient Greece and Rome, the kings of England, the Reformation, our great writers and thinkers, our institutions and on and on? Get real.

    Conservatives will begin winning when they jettison the globalist/Marxist narrative and go back to seeing themselves as a real people as they did before the bobo takeover in the 1960’s.

    • “China is the way it is because it is filled with Chinese people. Africa is the way it is because it is filled with Africans.”
      I believe that you need evidence to back those claims. Otherwise, it sounds like a circular argument. What is it about Chinese culture that is attributable to the intrinsic characteristics of the Chinese ethnicity?

      “Intelligence and proclivities are inherited and not equally shared” Agreed. So what? Why is this important? Yes, there are people with better grasp of abstraction than others, some people have innate abilities that others don’t. What does this fact imply? How does this affect your argument?

      “Do you really believe that non-western peoples give a flip about maintaining western heritage intact, about ancient Greece and Rome, the kings of England, the Reformation, our great writers and thinkers, our institutions and on and on? Get real.”

      As a side, I really couldn’t care less about the “Reformation”, Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Cromwell, and all the Protestant princes that decided to fill their treasuries by confiscating the Church’s assets and making themselves head of their “national” churches. As far as I am concerned, the Church was reformed at Trent.

      Back to the argument: Yes, I believe it, and have anecdotal evidence behind it. I came from another place with a very mixed ethnic background: Latin America; and I can tell you that many, that while not being white, care very much for western values, much more than many self-loathing whites.

      In terms of our thinking and institutions, you may want to add to that Marxism and Liberalism. Das Kapital was not exactly written in Africa. They are also part of the Western heritage: a part of which I am not exactly proud.

      Regarding the Greeks and the Romans, its culture exists in ethnic groups that had nothing to do with them: Germanic tribes. Germans were barbarians, invaders: backward peoples that practiced human sacrifice. If you look at the ethnic composition of England until the 1960’s it is evident that the Anglo-Saxons wiped out all the Roman and Celtic ethnic groups after the fall of the Roman Empire. The Franks, for which France is named, were similar. The Visigoths in Spain, etc. Thus, Greek and Roman culture survived in spite of the change in ethnicity, not because its ethnic composition dominated the Continent.

      While I agree that people want to be with people that are similar to them, and that leads to voluntary segregation (see Shelling’s Micromotives and Macrobehavior), this whole “wiping out” that you describe has nothing to do with race. It has to do that, in their prosperity, westerners simply decided not to have kids. I don’t blame other peoples for demographic suicide. No one is forcing sterilization on white people or imposing a one child policy: that is the Chinese plight. The question is: what is more important: for your genes, or for your worldview to survive? You can adopt non-whites to carry on with western culture. That is what the melting pot concept is all about: assimilation. Even if your answer is your genes, don’t despair. As other ethnic groups become assimilated in the US, their birth rates also drop. Check the census numbers.

      In terms of globalism, what more globalist than Traditional Christianity, as expressed in its Nicene creed? “… I believe in one holy catholic (UNIVERSAL) church …”

      Liberalism is the true enemy: Marxism is just its militant child. This is an intra-western struggle; and it is also global as the competing ideas of Truth and Relativism are both of western origin. While I have many doubts in my life, I am fairly certain that the Truth will ultimately prevail. Thus, I feel confident in saying: Liberals, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.

      • “If you look at the ethnic composition of England until the 1960′s it is evident that the Anglo-Saxons wiped out all the Roman and Celtic ethnic groups after the fall of the Roman Empire.”

        This is frequently overstated. There is a spectrum of genetic heritage in the British Isles going from east to west, with people in the east having the greatest amount of Germanic influence and those further west having more from the Celtic- language- speaking or indigeneous British peoples. There may be a distinct difference between the tall, blond East Anglian Saxon and the smaller, dark- haired Welshman, but in between there is considerable overlap. See for example the case of “Cheddar Man”, in which some of the present day inhabitants of a small village in Somerset, England were shown to share a genetic heritage with a 10,000- year- old skeleton found in the area (who was alive even before the advent of the Celts).

        In any case if the Celts had been wiped out by the Anglo- Saxons we would not still have Welsh and Gaelic speakers even today.. agus taing do Dhia, chan eil sin a’ chùis idir! (Thank God it’s not so).

      • Ralph: IQ and the Wealth of Nations.

        I grew up with Mestizos. The only bit of “western civilization” I remember them being concerned with is Bud Light. Honestly. Seriously.

        Wake up.

      • Eric:

        There was a previous posting about the Cristero War in Mexico. Here’s a picture of some of those who rebelled against the oppressive atheist regime shouting Cristo Rey. They don’t look very white to me. These are not even mestizos, but mostly Mexican Indians.

        http://www.laits.utexas.edu/jaime/cwp5/crg/english/intro/index.html

        I would say that they defended, with their blood, the most important aspect of western culture: Christianity. What if they are not the greatest scientists? Like Unamuno once said: Let them (Europeans) invent! Electricity shines here as well or better than in Europe.

        What has happened is the corruption of all peoples by liberalism. This softness/laziness that you describe has nothing to do with race, but with the infection of the soul that materialism generates. Don’t you think that the drop in birthrates and exaggerated search of comfort in the white population is just another symptom of this disease? Once this self destructive behavior disappears, I could maybe concieve of talking about a “war”. But until then, the evidence does not point in that direction.

        The double standard that even exists with whites should point you to a non-racial issue: only conservative whites are attacked when they mention race; liberals are heard. When conservative blacks speak out, they are called “Uncle Toms”; when liberal blacks speak out, they are heard. Even in this case, the evidence is clear: the shooter was not white. It was turned into a racial issue to attack conservative values. The real attack here is not racial, it is ideological.

        Anyway, given that you are posting this to me in good faith, I shall consider your argument, for I really don’t understand it. I just hope that, in good faith, you also consider mine.

      • Ralph: “The question is: what is more important: for your genes, or for your worldview to survive?”

        [I passed your comment on to a Jewish/Israeli friend of mine and he got a good laugh. He is firmly convinced that Christianity is a worldwide suicide cult for Euroepans, who will “turn the other cheek” until they are extinct.]

        Let me suggest this: I have a daughter who shares your worldview. If your own offspring don’t share it, feel free to cut them off and write my daughter’s name in your will. Heck, feel free to give her money for college, too. Why on earth waste your cash on your offspring who won’t advance your worldview?

        You will also have the satisfaction that you are helping the world-historic process of “American assimilation” by advancing “Proposition: America”.

        You see, my daughter is hi-yalla, cute as a button, and has “good hair” too! By making a conscious decision to cut off your own “bad worldview” all-white kids and paying for MY mixed daughter you will help replace the white people that consume so many world resources with the New Americans who will replace you and your offspring. And you will have the immense satisfaction of knowing your worldview will survive!

      • Big Bill: [I passed your comment on to a Jewish/Israeli friend of mine and he got a good laugh. He is firmly convinced that Christianity is a worldwide suicide cult for Euroepans, who will “turn the other cheek” until they are extinct.]

        Big Bill, ask your friend in the tight bordered Jewish ethnostate (and ask him to ask his friends) if they support Whites forming ethno-states that prohibit Jews.

        The answer may be a clue as to whether what we have going on here is purely suicide or if we should be looking for Dr. Kevorkian’s van around the corner.

  17. A Lady wrote: Pity stemming from self-righteousness is not just or righteous pity, and extrapolating what 10% of a population does as ‘most of them’ is also wrong. Many blacks are urban, but the predation is still committed by only a small subset of the whole.

    It’s not wrong to judge the group when the group supports that 10%.

    And there is nothing wrong with being “self-righteous” as you call it. Some people, by their actions and habits, are better than others.

    Whites get to live far away from their worst 10%,

    Get to? GET to? Ha. People move to the suburbs to escape the crime of the city. We pay extra for the houses, the gas, the car, the insurance, time, daycare, everything.

    while blacks never get to.

    Completely untrue. There are many large suburban areas full of blacks around every large city. These middle class blacks are also trying to escape the crime of the vibrant downtown communities. Unfortunately, once they congregate in large enough numbers, they find that they have brought their troubles with them.

    I only ever hear these tales of how 99% of blacks are raging semi-human jackals from people who claim to have lived in the urban core (which is not where most blacks live, though they do have a higher share living in urban areas more broadly than other races.)

    You completely mischaracterize the truth-tellers. Go to Amren.com where you will find about a dozen stories every day, culled from mainstream newspapers, chronicling the daily attacks on whites by non-whites.

    StuffBlackPeopleDontLike.blogspot.com has a series right now which might interest you about how the vibrant city of Detroit is getting along.

    I don’t like our current racial strife. It is destructive for all of us. These are just the facts. Different ethnicities/races always fight when thrown together. It has always been this way, the world over, and it will always be this way. When whites and blacks led separate lives, before the Marxist takeover in the 1960’s, both races were much healthier and happier. The race hustlers and globalists don’t want us to remember that.

    Multiculturalism/globalism is the project of Marxists and globocapitalists, working together to build a new Tower of Babel, a manmade Garden of Eden, which they will unselfishly run for the benefit of all mankind. Of course it will more likely resemble a casino gulag. We cannot stop those fools promoting worldwide state communism by pretending that it could work. We have to be honest about race and we must again allow everyone the freedom of association.

    Notice that in Revelation, there are nations, plural.

    • Yes and “nations” = ethnos. Ethnocentrism is a God-given check against global governance and a new “tower of babel” being built. Good comment.

      • “Notice that in Revelation, there are nations, plural.”

        “Yes and “nations” = ethnos. Ethnocentrism is a God-given check against global governance and a new “tower of babel” being built. Good comment.”

        You have no idea how glad it makes me to see there are Christians who see things aright.

        I was called a bigot and racist by a fellow Orthodox Christian for simply pointing out massive black-on-white crime, and implying it was low-level genocide. “Your view is incompatible with the Gospel.”

        I quit arguing. He’s blind. (Also, he’s married to a mixed girl of some sort. Probably expalins why he, for all his intellect, won’t tolerate such ideas as race.)

      • Athanasius: it is interesting that halfway-house Christians like the gentleman you describe *want* to join the freak show mixing of the tribes that everyone, and I mean everyone on the Christ-hating left promotes.

        They don’t love “diversity” at all. They want one deracinated, de-spiritualized blob of formless humanity to create a slave class of significantly dumber and grotesquely *disharmonious* looking people (view an average group of mestizos to see just what the future actually looks like) to marvel at their lily-white masters fabulous inventions and meager welfare payments.

        It’s playing God on so many levels I cannot even begin to describe it.

      • Eric Hale: I agree. As a reactionary, and as someone who bows to tradition, I can’t help but think God in His providence made me the ethnic (Anglo-Celtic) background I am.

        If God made men different races, and he made me what I am, and we have a duty in all others things to pass to our children what God has given us, does that “paradoseis” not also apply to our “ethne” as well?

        I will tell my children of their past. Of their ancestors. And I will select a woman of such lineage that it will *be* thier ancestors.

  18. I only ever hear these tales of how 99% of blacks are raging semi-human jackals from people who claim to have lived in the urban core (which is not where most blacks live, though they do have a higher share living in urban areas more broadly than other races.)

    A few official stats for you on the rate of black vs. white crime rates.

    http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR.asp

    Remember that hispanics are often counted as white for official stats, which makes the white rate look higher than it really is.

  19. It is sad to watch our Southern neighbours dance further along the road down into insanity…. yes I too live in Canada and no, not all is dandy here. However, I think we are somewhat immune against mass psychosis, because our real estate allows us to get away from each other … and despite having some unbearable bleeding-heart-do-gooders among us, we are generally less frenzy prone. It helps too that our racial mix is somewhat different and the worst amalgam is concentrated in the two major Eastern cities.

    I agree with Rusty’s statement:
    “Conservatives will begin winning when they jettison the globalist/Marxist narrative and go back to seeing themselves as a real people as they did before the bobo takeover in the 1960′s.”
    but won’t hold my breath expecting this to happen any time soon. Honestly? I think the USA is heading for another Civil War…. at least that is how it looks from my perch.

    • Joseph: re: Civil War

      As an American, I’m uncertain what the future will bring. But I cannot deny there is something in the air… an almost palpable sense that huge events are just around the corner.

      I don’t know what future America will look like, or what manner of nation I will pledge allegiance to there. All I know is it is my duty to ensure that future nation is more Christian and traditionalist than this one.

      • “All I know is it is my duty to ensure that future nation is more Christian and traditionalist than this one.”

        Athanasius, then we are on the same side in this war…

  20. In all the repeated outrage in the traditional blogsphere about the dysfunctionallity of black people and the covering up of this by the liberal media, I sense an unhealthy preoccupation, something that Samson was addressing. Why, for instance, is in this outrage usually the information missing, that there are also black people, like for instance David Mannig, who address this problem. Why is this dysfunctionallity usually presented as a problem inherent in the black community per se. There are numerous accounts of whites in the 19th century moving in a 100 % black environment without fear and harm (and without whips). As history shows black people in the US have not always been that dysfunctional. Just a few generations ago US blacks in their huge majority have been family people following the precepts of christian morality. And it was not just welfare which turned them into the savages of today. And it was not the worship of the noble savage, but of the savage savage by whites; and it had all to do with sex. In the first decades of the last century the white avant-garde in their urge for sexual license started to adore and mimic a deviant part of rootless urban blacks who practiced the „guilt free“ and lecherous sex life disembarassed whites dreamed of. By this worship they unleashed the worst in the black community and they transformed deviant losers into role-models. There is one road from the white avant-garde letting it all hang out it the brothel night clubs of Harlem to the hip hop concerts where a predominant white audience celebrates black savages on stage. This development is covered in depth in „Libido Dominandi“ by Michael E. Jones. I sense a kind of discomfort in traditional circles discussing this and other problems we face by getting to the heart of the matter and calling it sexual sin. Most conservatives „have been completely taken over by what I call the blob, which is the modern world´s consumerist and mechanistic attitude toward sex. And don´t underestimate the significance of this: the sexual dimension is utterly important in human life, and the distortion or truncation of sexuality has a radical effect upon the total personality. The problem is that sexual sin never remains simply sexual; it spreads and eventually gets turned into intellectual sin. This is what corruption is.“ (M.E. Jones)

  21. Well said Mr. Fink. It’s depressing to see the number of people who think the anti-feminist gamers and traditionalists are on the same side. It betrays the attitude of the unprodigal son, who resents the Father’s forgiveness of his brother because he wanted to do it too, but doesn’t realize the worth of what he has been given and worse, thinks it was earned.

    The other thing you notice with the race obsessed is that they act like there is nothing they can do until the USG stops doing stupid and destructive things or is destroyed in the Second Civil War. This story is a tragedy, but Mr. Zimmerman was trying to do a good thing. If he would have hit the gym a little instead of carrying the heater, we’d be talking about a hero (who would still get drawn and quartered by the media; that is the only thing that should invite outrage about this story, which is not a story because it is unsurprising).

  22. Whatever turned American blacks into ‘savages’ – if that’s what they are – it’s not likely to have been ‘all to do with sex’. Social pathologies don’t usually have a simplistic monocausal determinant.

    • Well, I would express it by saying the destruction of the family was required to begin the transformation, and sex is a pretty compelling carrot to draw people in that direction. It’s obvious in NAMs, but look at how the race obsessed are driven INSANE by interracial marriages. When you make an error in perceiving the world, and start to believe that everything that indicates that it might be an error is a lie, gradually the error will come to dominate understanding of reality.

      • Interracial marriage is a freakshow abomination. Tower of Babel. Look who promotes it!

        Do you think it is good for the kids? Honestly?

      • It is amusing how readily the race obsessed cast themselves as victims of oppression by the elite, while explaining the depravity of other races in strictly biological terms. An abomination? Really? Go stone somebody, tough guy. For the kids? So now you’re a noble humanitarian? Look who advocates that.

      • Race/ethnicity is important to the vast majority of the planet. Race and nation are extensions of family. It is wholly natural and good that one should be concerned about the welfare of one’s own family. Marxists and globalists are materialists and always say that race, nation, and family do not matter, the only thing that matters is the individual’s personal choices.

  23. I wouldn’t quarrel with the belief that the destruction of the traditional nuclear family is at the heart of what’s wrong in Western societies. However, the causes of that ruin are manifold.

    I don’t have any handy statistical data, but evidently there is a ‘differential rate’ of decay in family life when blacks are compared to whites. In other words, many (uneducated) blacks are pioneers on the trail to moral anarchy – with their white counterparts trying to overtake them.

    • And if you showed me statistical evidence showing racial discrepancies in and told me that this proved biological inferiority in moral terms, I’d laugh at you.

      Before the destruction of the family, there was the adoption of consumerism, in this country the sacramentalization of the American dream. What was needed for the American dream? Well, at one time opportunity, but a little capital never hurt anyone. Thing is, up until about the time the family fell apart, NAMs had neither. They were pioneers, for sure, but don’t act like they’ve always received the benefit of the every doubt from the USG like they do now (discounting drug laws). Whites made an idol of worldly success, blacks could never hope to emulate it (whether due to IQ or environment is irrelevant), and the serpent filled them with hopelessness and led them to a new idol.

  24. Ralph wrote: “As a side, I really couldn’t care less about the “Reformation”, Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Cromwell, and all the Protestant princes that decided to fill their treasuries by confiscating the Church’s assets and making themselves head of their “national” churches. As far as I am concerned, the Church was reformed at Trent.”

    This blog is about saving the West and protecting Westerners, their nations, and their families. Gabe Ruth and Ralph are adamant that none of that matters, that the West and Westerners are not worth saving. That the only thing that matters is ideas. So, why are they here?

  25. “Wherever an altar is found, there civilization exists” – Joseph de Maistre

    ‘Nough said. Why are you here?

  26. Rusty,

    http://orthosphere.org/about/

    Unless I misread, there is nothing about what you mention in there. It seems to be more about ideas than anything else.

    Regarding my comments of the Reformation, it was not directed at contemporaneous Protestants. It was directed at the historical figures themselves, as I think that the establishment of “own” authority to interpret Scripture is the basis upon which Liberalism was deviced. If my comment was taken as offensive, I will gladly stop talking about it, as modern traditional Protestantism is now not my concern.

    • Ralph, it’s a commonplace of Roman Catholic polemics to accuse Luther of establishing his “own” authority to interpret Scripture. You evidently believe this happened, and probably most Roman Catholics at this blog site also believe it.

      To anyone who is willing to consider the possibility that this view is — at the very least — a serious oversimplification, I would recommend two works.

      1.The less expensive and less compelling, but still worthwhile, work is Mathison’s The Shape of Sola Scriptura.

      Mathison is not a Lutheran, but some of what he says is applicable.

      2.The real treasure on this and related topics is Martin Chemnitz’s four-volume Examination of the Council of Trent. Chemnitz is the great figure of the second generation of the Conservative Reformation (the Lutheran Reformation; see C. P. Krauth’s The Conservative Reformation, which is available online). I would refer you particularly to the discussion of Tradition in Volume One. You haven’t read it, but do so sometime. It is a short book in itself, really.

      Chemnitz wrote (pp. 208-9):

      —–This also is certain, that no one should rely on his own wisdom in the interpretation of the Scripture, not even in the clear passages, for it is clearly written in 2 Peter 1:20: “The Scripture is not a matter of private interpretation.” And whoever twists the Holy Scripture so that it is understood according to his preconceived opinions does this to his own destruction (2 Peter 3:16). The best reader of the Scripture, according to Hilary, is one who does not bring the understanding of what is said to the Scripture but who carries it away from the Scripture. We also gratefully and reverently use the labors of the fathers who by their commentaries have profitably clarified many passages of the Scripture. And we confess that we are greatly confirmed by the testimonies of the ancient church in the true and sound understanding of the Scripture. Nor do we approve of it if someone invents for himself a meaning which conflicts with all antiquity, and for which there are clearly no testimonies of the church.—–

      This is a good indication of how Lutheran theology is done. Hence at an Orthodox theological academy the Christological textbook was Chemnitz’s The Two Natures in Christ.

      I grew up in the Church of the Nazarene, the Free Methodist church, the Christian and Missionary Alliance, etc. The time came when I had to find a church of Sacrament and faithfulness to the doctrine of the Apostles. In short, you’d have thought I looked pretty ripe for conversion to Rome or Constantinople. Study of both and of the Lutheran Confessions brought me to to the conservative (indeed reactionary) Lutheran church.

      Roman Catholic polemics about Protestant multivariousness ring hollow. If I converted to Rome, the biggest adjustment I would have to make is to the amazing range of belief possible for those who may be Catholics in good standing, from traditional RC homeschoolers to Jungian nuns to Ted Kennedy types: all welcome to commune, all liable to be buried with full Roman devotions, etc. At the least, when Roman Catholics assert Protestant variety they should humbly note the persistence, the continuity, of Confessional Lutheran faith, and acknowledge their own multivariousness.

      But read the books.

      • Thank you Mr. Nelson, good recommendations. But you side step Ralph’s statement that he was not talking about the merits of different denominations as they are now, but of the destruction of the western church and civilization wrought by the Reformation.

        Also, I’m skeptical that the Lutheran church has had much greater success than the Roman Catholic in convincing its adherents to live a Christ-like life. All the Catholics I know know the creed too. I do note the continuity, and it is laudable. But one is forced to wonder whether Luther would break away from the Roman church today on doctrinal issues. And if not, what now? The holiness of the people next to you really shouldn’t matter, even less that of celebrities who just call themselves Catholic. Is what they are saying true?

        Finally, excellent quote. I wish more Protestants I know believed it, and I wish every Christian was more familiar with the church fathers.

      • Gabe, right on.

        Dale, I will give the books a look, but cannot guarantee I’ll read them in their entirety, especially the second. My native tongue is Spanish, and wouldn’t have been able to finish the five centuries old Don Quixote without using a dictionary every 5 minutes. I cannot imagine reading a German theological treatise from the 1500’s and not suffer immensely. This must be a cross worth carrying.

    • Ralph, this is in response to your message of March 29, 2012 at 6:23 pm:

      Thank you for being willing to consider Chemnitz. Much of his discussion of Tradition is quoted from the Church Fathers, so even if you do not find his interpretation of their words to be compelling, you will probably enjoy the time spent in the Fathers’ company.

  27. Ralph and Gabe, OK, I got it. Real foundational things such as race, nations, heritage, tradition, and family don’t matter; disembodied ideas are supreme. Mea culpa.

    • Rusty, no one here is denying that “real foundational things such as race, nations, heritage, and tradition” matter. No one here would deny statistics that show conclusively that certain identifiable groups (races) of people are more criminal than others. No one here would likely deny that genetics plays a signifcant role in such statistics. But there is no getting around the fact that Christianity is a universal (i.e., catholic) religion. It almost certainly is true that fences between diverse groups (“nations”) makes for the best neighbors. And perhaps if one was starting from a clean slate, a clean slate that never has and never could occur in real life, one would build a state out of one “nation” united by race, religion, and culture.

      Unfortunately we don’t have that clean slate. So perhaps, the European settlers ought not to have allowed Catholics in, ought not to have allowed Africans in, ought not to have allowed Irish, southern and eastern Europeans and Jews in. Perhaps. But none of that really matters now. They (we) are all here, and unless you really are advocating a Send-Them-All-Back solution (which I happen to doubt you are), you’d better be looking for the most prudent way of ordering a polis… none of which involves tarring an entire race of people with the excesses of its worst members… which makes about as much sense as seeing Charles Manson or Anders Behring Breivik (or for that matter Ludwig Beethoven or Chesley Sullenberger) in all whites.

      So it may be, appears to be, that a black man is X (13 or 39 or whatever) times more likely to murder a white man than a white man is to murder a black man. That nevertheless does not make a majority of black men murderers. Statistically blacks suffer from social pathologies far more than whites. That doesn’t mean it is just or right to “send them all back”–especially since they, most for more generations than my own people, were born here. What to do about the whites who, in increasing numbers, suffer from social pathologies? Should we sent them “back”, too?

      • I don’t want to be accused of talking like a Marxist again, but the European settlers shouldn’t have allowed more people in? Let’s think about this…

    • Yes, it is interesting to note how deeply entrenched the nominalistic age is even among some traditionalists. There is a spiritual element to biological race. The outward appearance just groups us naturally together with people we are more closely related to. It amazes me that what was once common sense 50 years ago now takes massive amounts of reprogramming to regain.

      The word “nation” is rooted in the Latin “nasci”, or “to be born of” a particular people. “Propositional Nation” is a contradiction in terms. Foolishness dressed up as high-minded and intellectual thought.

  28. Of course Alex, it is all about sex. Wagners music was all about sex. Where else got young Nietzsche his inspiration to infect himself voluntarily with syphilis? And Jazz and Rock´n Roll are all about sex. And also everything is about usury. It is by the way all about creating the perfect consumer. And the promiscuous man, the slave of his vices, free of all traditional liaisons, is the ideal consumer. And the idol of the promiscuous man is the black man.
    As the Marquis de Sade stated: „The state of a moral man is one of tranquillity and peace; the state of an immoral man is one of perpetual unrest“ And the Marquis was in favor of the immoral man. Monocausal summed up this means: Modernity, in its transition from immoralism to cultural Marxism, is simply rationalized sexual license. There is only one question that remains:
    Will the Regime in which normality is redefined as perversion and perversion as normality become so pleasurable that no one cares anymore?

  29. Noting that civilization reached its zenith in European Christianity is not to deny that high levels of civilization have been reached by non-European non-Christians, nor to deny that any peoples may be civilized (transitive verb) when given proper and sustained paternal guidance.

  30. Great comments by Steve Nicoloso. But still, what are the causes of social pathologies? Answering this question without addressing the issue of sexual license is futile. When I talk this way I fear that most people think I am a puritan who wants to preach the beauty of chastity or something like this. But I am an ex-cultural revolutionary, one of the few real renegades roaming this kind of forums. And I am sometimes amazed about the naivety on certain topics in this forums. All technics in encounter and personal growth groups are based on the work of Wilhelm Reich. With the encounter technics they destroyed whole convents of nuns in California already in the 60th s. Wilhelm Reich, who like many of this kind of liberators went certifiably mad, knew exactly that sexual “freedom” is a weapon to destroy traditional society. And his influence today cannot be underestimated. It is not just about gross sexual transgressions like pornography, it is also about a knowledge of control, about methods that are penetrating our whole society, which may even seem innocent, but are designed to overcome „boundaries“ and in this way make people vulnerable.
    That the sexual „liberated“ white man made the licentious negro his role model which in turn empowered the Trayvon Martin´s of today is a side effect in a much bigger picture.

    • There is little doubt that the sexual revolution has made all the other revolutions far worse. But do note that the sexual revolution, along with the others, is paid for largely by statist politics: a pure libertarian, laissez faire, polity in which people could “do whatever they want” but not expect everyone else to pick up the tab, would make the costs of promiscuity too high, on average, for all but the weathiest people. Nature herself often extracts a pretty penny for disobedience. What we know call bourgeois morality arose as a cost-saving device. But today: well, you get more of whatever you pay for.

      • Interesting, but maybe you could explain how “bourgeois morality arose as a cost-saving device”? As far as I understand it, the WASP and other Protestant Elites who lost their faith but not their convictions of superiority have been the main force of sexual liberation. They did not suffer resulting social pathologies on the level their underclasses including the black community did when their unmorals soaked through to them by for instance the Rockefeller sponsored Kinsey Report. The Catholics followed in the 60th s. Anyway I live in anothe timezone as most of you here und ich gehe mit den Hühnern zu Bett um den Volkskörper frisch zu erhalten. But maybe, when it is for me tomorrow, this interesting discussion is still going on.

      • the WASP and other Protestant Elites who lost their faith but not their convictions of superiority have been the main force of sexual liberation. They did not suffer resulting social pathologies on the level their underclasses including the black community did when their unmorals soaked through to them

        But that’s precisely what I’m saying. The rich and powerful generally do not suffer, have never sufferred, as much as the working classes and poor for their respective transgressions. King David can afford (in this world at least) to commit adultery; the lowly tradesman not so much.

  31. Thomas, what some of the participants in this conversation confirm is the rifeness of simple explanations for the existence of difficult social problems.

    If Wagner’s music is all about sex and everything else is all about usury, then I guess my ‘world view’ is needlessly complicated and I’ve been misinformed all down the line.

    • I hoped that you got it that my explanations are not so simple as you suppose. Everything is about usury. Everything is about sex. Everything is about food. Everything is about status. And I could come up with some more everythings.
      But ultimately everything is about God and his presence in a golden morning light.
      If you have better explanations more or less complicated, tell me. But when you dismiss my explanations do it on behalf of their inherit value and not just on the assertion they are not complex enough. Tell me then why.

      • It’s true that a complex explanation isn’t necessarily the ‘best’ explanation. Don’t we value explanations on their capacity to make something intelligible with the least number of assumptions?

        But assertions, disguised as explanations, which are ‘ultra parsimonious’ and claim that “Everything is about X” need to make clear why it’s assumed they have a total superiority of explanatory power in accounting for the facts etc. Maybe if you had given grounds for your opinion that “everything” can be understood in terms of X, or Y, or Z, my objection would be redundant.

  32. Althouse on the left’s exploitation of this issue:

    This is the left-wing presentation of the case. All I want to talk about here is the photograph The Nation has used to illustrate this item. We see a 3-year-old child, a boy who happens to be black. He’s been dressed in a black hoodie — the item of clothing Martin was wearing when he died — and given a sign to hold. The sign has a picture of a bag of Skittles — the candy the 17-year-old Martin had in his possession when he was shot — and the words Justice 4 Trayvon Martin. The child’s eyes are downcast. He looks terribly sad.

    But he can’t possibly be sad about racism in American, injustice, or the death of Trayvon Martin. He’s 3 years old!

    He’s probably sad because he’s been dragged to a protest and made to stand around, holding a sign, at knee level to a lot of adults who are angry about something he can’t understand. Who knows the ways in which a 3-year-old absorbs the emotions of the adults who surround him? Does he even know he’s black, and if he does, does that have meaning for him? What meaning is he learning — that he’s guilty of being black?

    • With reference particularly to the question, “Who knows the ways in which a 3-year-old absorbs the emotions of the adults who surround him?,” let us listen to the Elder Zosima, in Dostoevsky’s The Brothers Karamazov, Book 6, Chapter 3, Section G “Of Prayer, Love, and the Touching of Other Worlds.” (I quote from page 319 of the Pevear-Volokhonsky edition of this imperishable book.) The staretz is addressing his fellow monastics, but there’s much here for layfolk:

      “Keep company with yourself and look to yourself every day and hour, every minute, that your image be ever gracious. See, here you have passed by a small child, passed by in anger, with a foul word, with a wrathful soul; you perhaps did not notice the child, but he saw you, and your unsightly and impious image has remained in his defenseless heart. You did not know it, but you may thereby have planted a bad seed in him, and it may grow, and all because you did not restrain yourself before the child, because you did not nurture in yourself a heedful, active love.”

      • Excellent. I’m pretty good at remembering plot, but little details like that fade in my mind quickly. I’ve read that if you started reading to C.S. Lewis from a book in his library, he could finish the page from memory. I’ve always thought that would be the best super power (maybe not always).

  33. ‘In terms of globalism, what more globalist than Traditional Christianity, as expressed in its Nicene creed? “… I believe in one holy catholic (UNIVERSAL) church …”’

    Yes, quite, and this is what unfortunately dooms your project.

    The universalizing tendency inherent in the plain words and meaning of the Creed will cause you will succumb to this variant of O’Sullivan’s Law: those organizations which are not explicitly ethnocentric will become increasingly hostile to ethnocentrism over time.

    The Ralphs and the Gabes among you will multiply leaving you with nothing but empty gestures regarding what used to be known as Western Civilization.

    If Christianity is to be truly universal, it will become increasingly African, Mestizo, and Asian. What of Tradition then?

    ‘But there is no getting around the fact that Christianity is a universal (i.e., catholic) religion.’

    No, there isn’t, is there?

    • Ethnic pluralism within the Universal Church neither implies nor requires the same in the polis. The mere fact that there are many (I’m not certain of the exact count, 17?) rites within the Catholic church, most of them entirely, or to a large extent, national, gives evidence of this fact. That many of her bishops today follow (actually lag considerably–bishops are always terrible at “being cool”) fashionable multi-culti trends is regrettable, but does not reflect any inherent weakness in Christian doctrine to the disordering effects of pluralism.

    • Chris, I’m not sure that you are writing as a Christian. If you are, you seem to begrudge the Faith growing among people who are not of Northern European stock. Could you reconsider?

      The Christian faith originally was a Jewish thing. It spread rapidly to North Africa, India, Mesopotamia, Greece, Italy, and Spain. Eventually it reached my ancestors in Scandinavia. If it weren’t for the universal mission of Christians who brought the Faith to people outside their own ethnicity, I suppose I’d still be sacrificing to murderous Odin and big-dicked Frey, i.e. to devils.

      In a dark and darkening time, one of the few encouraging phenomena is the conversion of many people to the Faith, people mostly outside the US and Northern and Western Europe. The Us and Western Europe are casting off such bits of the Faith as still remain, with great zeal. Perhaps someday, when they have gone through the miseries that await them and are savages once again, they will be evangelized by sturdy Christians from the South and East as they were many centuries before. None of us knows.

      But, Chris, if you are not writing as a Christian, I don’t understand your fondness for “what used to be known as Western Civilization.”

      If I have misunderstood you, especially if you are my fellow Christian, perhaps you could patiently clarify for me.

      If your lament is exclusively related to possible intermarriages among Christians, I’d ask whether you see a lot of this occurring. But also, you might reconsider whether, if it’s occurring, it is a bad thing. I’ll have to try to find that article I read a while back that was a biblical study of interracial marriage — and quite favorable towards it. The context was, as I recall, a discussion of the marriage of Moses to an Ethiopian woman…

      • How has it worked in Brazil?

        As far as I know, it’s worked there pretty much like it has in every other Latin American country: caste and color correlate. Such a development hardly marks the end of civilization…

      • ‘Chris, I’m not sure that you are writing as a Christian.’

        No, I’m not. I was raised Roman Catholic, I’m raising my children Roman Catholic, and I attend Mass (I don’t receive the Eucharist), but I’ve never been a believing type (didn’t get the gene?) and have given up trying for the time being.

        ‘Eventually it reached my ancestors in Scandinavia.’

        Church of Sweden on my father’s side. RCC on my mother’s.

        ‘But, Chris, if you are not writing as a Christian, I don’t understand your fondness for “what used to be known as Western Civilization.”’

        What’s not to like? My ancestors (White Europeans) built it and I find that it suits me and my family. I don’t find the same utility, truth, or beauty in any other tradition.

        I have a dilemma here.

        On one hand, traditional Christianity’s enemies are largely my enemies, too.

        On the other hand, my fear is that what little remains intact of my ancestors’ tradition (and very existence as a distinct people) will come under increasing threat from a Christianity whose center of mass has been displaced from Europe:

        ‘Perhaps someday, when they have gone through the miseries that await them and are savages once again, they will be evangelized by sturdy Christians from the South and East as they were many centuries before.’

        I think Europe and its offspring have had quite enough evangelism from the South and East already, thanks.

        ‘[…] you seem to begrudge the Faith growing among people who are not of Northern European stock.’

        That’s exactly it, yes, I do. Maybe I’m the the only one in the world who wants this, but I’d like to see a healthy Christianity which is coterminous with Europe and it’s direct descendants.

  34. Just browsing around I found this and found it of interest. It speaks for itself.

    http://usccb.org/issues-and-action/cultural-diversity/african-american/brothers-and-sisters-to-us.cfm

    ‘Racism is not merely one sin among many; it is a radical evil that divides the human family and denies the new creation of a redeemed world. To struggle against it demands an equally radical transformation, in our own minds and hearts as well as in the structure of our society.’

    The whole thing is worth a read.

  35. “On the other hand, my fear is that what little remains intact of my ancestors’ tradition (and very existence as a distinct people) will come under increasing threat from a Christianity whose center of mass has been displaced from Europe…”

    Chris the centre of “Christianity,” looking at the Church of Sweden (and similar denominations), is not only displaced from Europe, it has been catapulted into the outer space of liberalism.

    I think your, somewhat myopic, view of Christianity is formed by being exposed to the pathologies that are present in most western Christianity (and I am using “Christianity” here loosely). Christianity, and a robust one at that, is comfortably compatible with the national traditions of a people who actually believes and practises their Christian faith. This is amply demonstrated by the Orthodox Church…

    No offence meant, but it looks like you are treating your church more like a “culturally enriched country club.” You are bemoaning, what you are actually a contributer to, the demise of “…..a healthy Christianity which is coterminous with Europe and it’s direct descendants.”

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