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	<title>Comments on: Liberalism and the religion-shaped hole in the human heart</title>
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	<link>http://orthosphere.org/2012/08/07/liberalism-and-the-religion-shaped-hole-in-the-human-heart/</link>
	<description>Wherever an altar is found, there civilization exists - Joseph de Maistre</description>
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		<title>By: samsonsjawbone</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2012/08/07/liberalism-and-the-religion-shaped-hole-in-the-human-heart/#comment-6078</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[samsonsjawbone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 00:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=1897#comment-6078</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/aug/17/pussy-riot-trial-verdict-live?newsfeed=true&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Paging Alan&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;i&gt;The court does find a religious hatred motive in the actions of the defendants by way of them being feminists who consider men and women to be equal. Now gender equally is asserted, maintained by the Russian constitution where all people are proclaimed equal irrespective of their gender, race, nationality political affiliation and so on.&lt;/i&gt;

If you haven&#039;t read about this, you should. Russian judge actually calls liberalism a religion!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/aug/17/pussy-riot-trial-verdict-live?newsfeed=true" rel="nofollow">Paging Alan</a>:</p>
<p><i>The court does find a religious hatred motive in the actions of the defendants by way of them being feminists who consider men and women to be equal. Now gender equally is asserted, maintained by the Russian constitution where all people are proclaimed equal irrespective of their gender, race, nationality political affiliation and so on.</i></p>
<p>If you haven&#8217;t read about this, you should. Russian judge actually calls liberalism a religion!</p>
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		<title>By: Luqman</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2012/08/07/liberalism-and-the-religion-shaped-hole-in-the-human-heart/#comment-5762</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luqman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 02:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=1897#comment-5762</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually Haidt mentions exactly what you are referring to in similar terms. He states in his book as an example how an art exhibit deriding Martin Luther King in similar terms as the execrable Piss Christ would cause an outrage amongst consumers of modern art (who happen to be almost entirely of liberal dispositions).

Liberals care about purity, their sense of purity is just perverted towards different things.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Haidt mentions exactly what you are referring to in similar terms. He states in his book as an example how an art exhibit deriding Martin Luther King in similar terms as the execrable Piss Christ would cause an outrage amongst consumers of modern art (who happen to be almost entirely of liberal dispositions).</p>
<p>Liberals care about purity, their sense of purity is just perverted towards different things.</p>
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		<title>By: Ilíon</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2012/08/07/liberalism-and-the-religion-shaped-hole-in-the-human-heart/#comment-5759</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ilíon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 01:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=1897#comment-5759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;&lt;I&gt;The heresies change, but at least the heretics stay the same.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

*grin*]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>The heresies change, but at least the heretics stay the same.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>*grin*</p>
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		<title>By: ilion7</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2012/08/07/liberalism-and-the-religion-shaped-hole-in-the-human-heart/#comment-5757</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ilion7]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 01:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=1897#comment-5757</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Really.  Just consider the &#039;woo-woos&#039; that sort reports getting when considering &quot;Deep Time&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really.  Just consider the &#8216;woo-woos&#8217; that sort reports getting when considering &#8220;Deep Time&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2012/08/07/liberalism-and-the-religion-shaped-hole-in-the-human-heart/#comment-5748</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=1897#comment-5748</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Control group? (Yeah, I know, it&#039;s psychology-science, not science-science)  Here is the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=march+for+life&amp;FORM=HDRSC2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;March for Life.&lt;/a&gt;  Lots of signs.  Not many purity-themed ones (this is a defect, IMO). I initially thought there were no pictures of abortion victims, even, but there are a very few.  Even those are not really supposed to generate a disgust reaction, so even they don&#039;t count.

&quot;Capitalist pig&quot; isn&#039;t a category of disgustingness on the left any more.  Nor is Wall St.  Racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic.  Those are the charged topics now.  2012 &gt; 1968.  So, really, OWS was not such a good choice.  The heresies change, but at least the heretics stay the same.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Control group? (Yeah, I know, it&#8217;s psychology-science, not science-science)  Here is the <a href="http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=march+for+life&amp;FORM=HDRSC2" rel="nofollow">March for Life.</a>  Lots of signs.  Not many purity-themed ones (this is a defect, IMO). I initially thought there were no pictures of abortion victims, even, but there are a very few.  Even those are not really supposed to generate a disgust reaction, so even they don&#8217;t count.</p>
<p>&#8220;Capitalist pig&#8221; isn&#8217;t a category of disgustingness on the left any more.  Nor is Wall St.  Racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic.  Those are the charged topics now.  2012 &gt; 1968.  So, really, OWS was not such a good choice.  The heresies change, but at least the heretics stay the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2012/08/07/liberalism-and-the-religion-shaped-hole-in-the-human-heart/#comment-5746</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=1897#comment-5746</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On 1, I&#039;m afraid that I&#039;m not a big fan of psychologists&#039; &quot;data.&quot;

On 2, I can&#039;t offhand think of more than one or two people I know who are less attuned to purity or ingroup/outgroup than I am, so this explanation seems not to be right.  In fact, back when I was much leftier, I was always befuddled by the left&#039;s insane, lefter-than-thou sanctimony.

It&#039;s conceivable that it&#039;s all due to some selection bias, but essentially every experience I have had with crazed sanctimony has come from a lefty.  The idea that I should weight some psychologist&#039;s claims over the evidence of my senses because the shrinks get all puffy and babble about &quot;science&quot; is ridiculous.

On 3, I have no idea what you mean by &quot;genuine religiosity.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On 1, I&#8217;m afraid that I&#8217;m not a big fan of psychologists&#8217; &#8220;data.&#8221;</p>
<p>On 2, I can&#8217;t offhand think of more than one or two people I know who are less attuned to purity or ingroup/outgroup than I am, so this explanation seems not to be right.  In fact, back when I was much leftier, I was always befuddled by the left&#8217;s insane, lefter-than-thou sanctimony.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s conceivable that it&#8217;s all due to some selection bias, but essentially every experience I have had with crazed sanctimony has come from a lefty.  The idea that I should weight some psychologist&#8217;s claims over the evidence of my senses because the shrinks get all puffy and babble about &#8220;science&#8221; is ridiculous.</p>
<p>On 3, I have no idea what you mean by &#8220;genuine religiosity.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: The Man Who Was . . .</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2012/08/07/liberalism-and-the-religion-shaped-hole-in-the-human-heart/#comment-5740</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Man Who Was . . .]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 17:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=1897#comment-5740</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just for fun, here is John Carey taking the piss out of Dawkins:

&quot;And if you look at subatomic particles and think how awesome they are - well, they&#039;re only awesome because we&#039;re completely unable to deal with them. What Dawkins calls &#039;awe&#039; is actually ignorance.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for fun, here is John Carey taking the piss out of Dawkins:</p>
<p>&#8220;And if you look at subatomic particles and think how awesome they are &#8211; well, they&#8217;re only awesome because we&#8217;re completely unable to deal with them. What Dawkins calls &#8216;awe&#8217; is actually ignorance.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: The Man Who Was . . .</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2012/08/07/liberalism-and-the-religion-shaped-hole-in-the-human-heart/#comment-5739</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Man Who Was . . .]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 17:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=1897#comment-5739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In addition to Keltner and McGilchrist, you can also check out the work of Marghanita Laski.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition to Keltner and McGilchrist, you can also check out the work of Marghanita Laski.</p>
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		<title>By: The Man Who Was . . .</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2012/08/07/liberalism-and-the-religion-shaped-hole-in-the-human-heart/#comment-5737</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Man Who Was . . .]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 16:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=1897#comment-5737</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These are anecdotal accounts from two people, moreover two people who are engaged in a vicious polemic against religion.  More typical is Descartes: &quot;One will no longer have occasion to admire anything about what is seen&quot; or Darwin: &quot;I am turned into a sort of machine for observing facts and grinding out conclusions&quot; the one celebrating and the other lamenting their loss of wonder.

I&#039;m picking away at an essay on the relation of science to art and believe me both the studies and the vast majority of anecdotal observations from philosophers and other writers show that rationalistic thinking tends to kill awe and wonder.  You can also read a very good account of this J.S. Mill&#039;s autobiography.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are anecdotal accounts from two people, moreover two people who are engaged in a vicious polemic against religion.  More typical is Descartes: &#8220;One will no longer have occasion to admire anything about what is seen&#8221; or Darwin: &#8220;I am turned into a sort of machine for observing facts and grinding out conclusions&#8221; the one celebrating and the other lamenting their loss of wonder.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m picking away at an essay on the relation of science to art and believe me both the studies and the vast majority of anecdotal observations from philosophers and other writers show that rationalistic thinking tends to kill awe and wonder.  You can also read a very good account of this J.S. Mill&#8217;s autobiography.</p>
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		<title>By: The Man Who Was . . .</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2012/08/07/liberalism-and-the-religion-shaped-hole-in-the-human-heart/#comment-5736</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Man Who Was . . .]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 16:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=1897#comment-5736</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Haidt did a walk through of Occupy Wall Street and looked at the signs.   There weren&#039;t a lot of signs referencing purity/sanctity.  I took a quick look on the net here myself and I too didn&#039;t find a lot relating to purity/sanctity.  Interesting that there weren&#039;t any calls to &quot;purify&quot; or &quot;cleanse&quot; America and such.  There weren&#039;t even any references to &quot;cleaning up&quot; Wall Street, which seems to be a standard of anti-corruption rhetoric. Neither were there any references to &quot;capitalist pigs&quot; and similar things.  I found a picture one person putting a &quot;corporate snake&quot; sign on the container for his actual pet snake and one picture of the Republican elephant pooping on a smiley face.  Some stuff like &quot;lets figure this shit out together&quot; but that doesn&#039;t invoke disgust.  In contrast, there were some quite noticeable references to violence and rebellion.

I was really fascinated at the lack of purity/sanctity references, particularly of the &quot;capitalist pig&quot; type.

There were some signs evidencing solidarity with each other.  Of all the three conservative moral foundations, liberals seem to understand loyalty/ingroup the best.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haidt did a walk through of Occupy Wall Street and looked at the signs.   There weren&#8217;t a lot of signs referencing purity/sanctity.  I took a quick look on the net here myself and I too didn&#8217;t find a lot relating to purity/sanctity.  Interesting that there weren&#8217;t any calls to &#8220;purify&#8221; or &#8220;cleanse&#8221; America and such.  There weren&#8217;t even any references to &#8220;cleaning up&#8221; Wall Street, which seems to be a standard of anti-corruption rhetoric. Neither were there any references to &#8220;capitalist pigs&#8221; and similar things.  I found a picture one person putting a &#8220;corporate snake&#8221; sign on the container for his actual pet snake and one picture of the Republican elephant pooping on a smiley face.  Some stuff like &#8220;lets figure this shit out together&#8221; but that doesn&#8217;t invoke disgust.  In contrast, there were some quite noticeable references to violence and rebellion.</p>
<p>I was really fascinated at the lack of purity/sanctity references, particularly of the &#8220;capitalist pig&#8221; type.</p>
<p>There were some signs evidencing solidarity with each other.  Of all the three conservative moral foundations, liberals seem to understand loyalty/ingroup the best.</p>
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