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	<title>Comments on: Thank God (some of) our enemies are idiots</title>
	<atom:link href="http://orthosphere.org/2013/01/03/thank-god-some-of-our-enemies-are-idiots/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://orthosphere.org/2013/01/03/thank-god-some-of-our-enemies-are-idiots/</link>
	<description>Wherever an altar is found, there civilization exists - Joseph de Maistre</description>
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		<title>By: John Khoo</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2013/01/03/thank-god-some-of-our-enemies-are-idiots/#comment-11717</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Khoo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=2782#comment-11717</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is good that interdenominational tensions flare up occasionally amongst us. Relativism is like the One Ring, or perhaps a universal solvent: if we, in the spirit of relativism, surrender our alleigances to our individual denominations in order to work more effectively as a coherent Orthosphere against liberalism (and, in the unlikely event of victory, against Islam), we ourselves will become corrupted by the taint of relativism, and it will establish a foothold in our mentalities, eventually corrupting everything. These little exchanges, I believe, are a bit like frequent, regular Confession: they help to keep us clean so that we don&#039;t examine ourselves one day and find that it&#039;s already too late. In fighting relativism, we must never adopt it as a weapon, or we ourselves will be corrupted and destroyed by it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is good that interdenominational tensions flare up occasionally amongst us. Relativism is like the One Ring, or perhaps a universal solvent: if we, in the spirit of relativism, surrender our alleigances to our individual denominations in order to work more effectively as a coherent Orthosphere against liberalism (and, in the unlikely event of victory, against Islam), we ourselves will become corrupted by the taint of relativism, and it will establish a foothold in our mentalities, eventually corrupting everything. These little exchanges, I believe, are a bit like frequent, regular Confession: they help to keep us clean so that we don&#8217;t examine ourselves one day and find that it&#8217;s already too late. In fighting relativism, we must never adopt it as a weapon, or we ourselves will be corrupted and destroyed by it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Proph</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2013/01/03/thank-god-some-of-our-enemies-are-idiots/#comment-11595</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Proph]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2013 20:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=2782#comment-11595</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And actually, many of them do simply declare themselves priests and minister accordingly, since, at least in America, no bishops will do it.

But yes, Kristor&#039;s answer is basically right. They don&#039;t just want the job title. They want power. It&#039;s all, always, about power with them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And actually, many of them do simply declare themselves priests and minister accordingly, since, at least in America, no bishops will do it.</p>
<p>But yes, Kristor&#8217;s answer is basically right. They don&#8217;t just want the job title. They want power. It&#8217;s all, always, about power with them.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kristor</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2013/01/03/thank-god-some-of-our-enemies-are-idiots/#comment-11592</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kristor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2013 18:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=2782#comment-11592</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s because they want power.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s because they want power.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: buckyinky</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2013/01/03/thank-god-some-of-our-enemies-are-idiots/#comment-11591</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[buckyinky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=2782#comment-11591</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is something that doesn&#039;t make sense to me about the liberal mind that is brought to light by the women&#039;s &quot;ordination&quot; movement.

On the one hand they discredit the idea that the will of Another (i.e., God) in making them women should have anything to do with whether they can be priests or not.  But then on the other hand, they acknowledge their dependence upon the will of another (i.e., the bishop, by his willful laying on of hands) in making them priests.  

They have no problem declaring themselves proper material for priesthood in spite of what the Church holds to be true; why do they seem to have a problem then with simply declaring themselves actual priests?  Why does the will of the bishop, in this case, mean so much to them?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is something that doesn&#8217;t make sense to me about the liberal mind that is brought to light by the women&#8217;s &#8220;ordination&#8221; movement.</p>
<p>On the one hand they discredit the idea that the will of Another (i.e., God) in making them women should have anything to do with whether they can be priests or not.  But then on the other hand, they acknowledge their dependence upon the will of another (i.e., the bishop, by his willful laying on of hands) in making them priests.  </p>
<p>They have no problem declaring themselves proper material for priesthood in spite of what the Church holds to be true; why do they seem to have a problem then with simply declaring themselves actual priests?  Why does the will of the bishop, in this case, mean so much to them?</p>
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		<title>By: If you reject modern culture... - Page 10 - Christian Forums</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2013/01/03/thank-god-some-of-our-enemies-are-idiots/#comment-11563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[If you reject modern culture... - Page 10 - Christian Forums]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2013 01:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=2782#comment-11563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anymouse</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2013/01/03/thank-god-some-of-our-enemies-are-idiots/#comment-11523</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anymouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 01:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=2782#comment-11523</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good point.

Onnnward! the Churchians will cry, nevertheless.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point.</p>
<p>Onnnward! the Churchians will cry, nevertheless.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: pg</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2013/01/03/thank-god-some-of-our-enemies-are-idiots/#comment-11438</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2013 06:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=2782#comment-11438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@peacefulpartings:
&gt;&gt;The Church finally (not until 1965!!) made an official statement as to the abomination of slavery but has yet to do the same about the abomination of sexist doctrine.

If you weren&#039;t as influenced by leftist, anti-Catholic propaganda you&#039;d know that popes have condemned unjust (e.g. racial) slavery and slave trade ever since the early 15th century (since this form of slavery began in larger scale in the Age of Discoveries). In fact those who enslaved the natives were to incur excommunication ipso facto. They also declared that foreign peoples, even if they were outside the faith, must not be deprived of liberty nor property. Slavery has been common and accepted practice throughout human history, and it was Catholic moral teaching that, before most anyone else, condemned such practices. In fact, have we not had Christianity, slavery might well still be widespread.   


&gt;&gt; Misogyny is a deep-seated belief...

As for St. Augustine - you no doubt also consider God a misogynist, after all, it is His creation, His hierarchy and His order of things. Personally, given the choice, I shall happily side with a giant and saint of the caliber of St. Augustine (and countless generations of our ancestors, in fact all of humanity until a few decades ago) in opposition to the &quot;enlightened&quot; modern man of the present day (who glorifies sin - the more abominable, the better- and destroys all that is good, true and beautiful while exalting everything evil, wrong and ugly, as well as being responsible for, among other things, the worst mass murder in the history of mankind). If we had bishops like St. Augustine today, some of the countless &quot;Catholics&quot; heading for damnation could see the light and be saved.  

&gt;&gt;Other than the teaching on female ordination, the Church has changed its stance on every issue above.

Indeed. And thanks to her modernization and adjustment to the spirit of the times and fashions of the world countless millions souls are lost. The Truth is timeless, whether we like it or not. The fact that modern man no longer believes in &quot;outdated&quot; and &quot;silly&quot; concepts like sin, hell, etc doesn&#039;t change anything. (In any case, he will believe when he gets there.)

So, now to the original issue...

As for the women clamoring for ordination - they most definitely do not have an actual vocation, for a vocation to priesthood is not a mere attraction one has, but is a call from God. Hence it&#039;s absurd to claim theirs is a true vocation. Furthermore, they are not even Catholics, because if they were, they would not reject and rebel against divine law, Church tradition, canon law, and reject all authority, hierarchy and divine order, nor would they aim for sacrilege and mockery of God. What they are saying is, I am a law unto myself, I will do it my way and exalt myself.

Yet this is not about us and our will but about God. Priestly office is not meant for the honor or advancement of man but for service to God and the Church.

History, ever since the Apostles and early Fathers, shows the first Christians believed that Christ intended only men to become priests. (The heretical gnostic sect allowed women in priestly roles, which was duly condemned by the Church.) This was an unquestioned tradition from the very beginning. (The Protestant heretics changed the role of their priesthood from the 16th cent on. And pagans, of course, always had female priestesses... it&#039;s fitting that these calls for women&#039;s ordination are so widespread during these neo-pagan times. That, incidentally, also means that the Apostles preaching the Gospel to the Greco-Roman world, with its pagan gods and priestesses, could have ordained women if this was simply about cultural norms and not about remaining faithful to the Lord and His will.)  

It remains a fact that Jesus, in His selection of male Apostles, chose men to be His priests. (Those who are not happy with this &quot;discrimination&quot; and &quot;sexism&quot; need to take it up with Him.) 
That has nothing to do with inferiority or discrimination and everything with God&#039;s plan for His Church. After all, the most perfect creation, Bl. Virgin Mary, Mother of God and Mother of the Church, wasn&#039;t made a priest. As Pope Innocent III wrote in early 13th cent: &quot;Although the Blessed Virgin Mary surpassed in dignity and in excellence all the Apostles, nevertheless it was not to her but to them that the Lord entrusted the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven&quot;. (And of course throughout Church history women played a very important role, incl the many great saints, founders of religious order, visionaries, countless holy religious and of course mothers of families passing on the faith to next generations.)

Christ, at the Last Supper, instituted the sacred priesthood through the sacrament of Holy Orders, in order to continue His divine mission on earth. He chose men to do His work for Him and gave these men, the priests, the power to bring sanctifying grace to us (which is necessary for salvation). Priesthood is both a great gift and the greatest responsibility - for it is responsibility over souls. (Women, who tend to demand all the rights without any of the corresponding responsibilities, should take a note of that.) The priest is the instrument our Lord has chosen; He acts through His priests who exercise His authority. Nobody but ordained priests can turn bread into the body of Christ, forgive sins, etc. 

However, the greater the grace the more severe the punishment for sin for priests who fail to work for the salvation of souls. It is not up to the priest (nor up to the Church) to test novel ideas. God doesn&#039;t need our advice, He doesn&#039;t need us to give Him new ideas, He is timeless, He doesn&#039;t need to get updated to fit the fashions of the day and the modern liberal sensitivities of a feminized society.

As said above by John Khoo -
A priest is an alter Christus - another Christ. He, by the power of his sacred ordination, acts in persona Christi (in the Person of Christ). During the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass the priest acts in the place of Christ who uses him to offer Himself in sacrifice to the Father, in an unbloody renewal of Calvary. In the Mass, the priest, acting in the Person of Christ, consecrates the Host saying, &#039;This is My Body&#039; and &#039;This is the Chalice of My Blood&#039; - he does not say, &#039;This is the Body of Christ,&#039; nor &#039;This is the Chalice of His Blood&#039;. Similarly, the priest - acting in the Person of Christ - says &#039;I absolve thee from thy sins&#039;; rather than &#039;Christ absolves thee from thy sins&#039;. As Christ is a man, so His priest, who acts in the Person of Christ, must be a man.

Further, Christ is the Bridegroom and Head of the Church. His sacrifice on Calvary is the consummation of His marriage to the Church, His bride. Therefore it is man - based on his physical nature - who has the ability to receive Holy Orders; it would be impossible for a woman to truly and sacramentally act in the Person of the Bridegroom. That doesn&#039;t take away from the nature of women, just as not being able to bear children doesn&#039;t take away from the nature of men. It simply means the Almighty and All-knowing God has chosen it to be that way. Just as it is not possible for a man to be a mother, it is not possible for a woman to be a (validly ordained) priest. Man and woman each have their own role and function. It&#039;s only our deluded (er, I meant &#039;enlightened&#039;) society that pretends men and women to be equal (as in identical/interchangeable) and to have no distinct roles and abilities.    

In a sane society this [women priesthood] would not even be a matter of discussion, much less dispute. Alas, ours is as insane and unhealthy a society as there can ever be... We should certainly pray for these confused and deluded souls, but we must not indulge them by listening to their entirely unreasonable demands and complaints.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@peacefulpartings:<br />
&gt;&gt;The Church finally (not until 1965!!) made an official statement as to the abomination of slavery but has yet to do the same about the abomination of sexist doctrine.</p>
<p>If you weren&#8217;t as influenced by leftist, anti-Catholic propaganda you&#8217;d know that popes have condemned unjust (e.g. racial) slavery and slave trade ever since the early 15th century (since this form of slavery began in larger scale in the Age of Discoveries). In fact those who enslaved the natives were to incur excommunication ipso facto. They also declared that foreign peoples, even if they were outside the faith, must not be deprived of liberty nor property. Slavery has been common and accepted practice throughout human history, and it was Catholic moral teaching that, before most anyone else, condemned such practices. In fact, have we not had Christianity, slavery might well still be widespread.   </p>
<p>&gt;&gt; Misogyny is a deep-seated belief&#8230;</p>
<p>As for St. Augustine &#8211; you no doubt also consider God a misogynist, after all, it is His creation, His hierarchy and His order of things. Personally, given the choice, I shall happily side with a giant and saint of the caliber of St. Augustine (and countless generations of our ancestors, in fact all of humanity until a few decades ago) in opposition to the &#8220;enlightened&#8221; modern man of the present day (who glorifies sin &#8211; the more abominable, the better- and destroys all that is good, true and beautiful while exalting everything evil, wrong and ugly, as well as being responsible for, among other things, the worst mass murder in the history of mankind). If we had bishops like St. Augustine today, some of the countless &#8220;Catholics&#8221; heading for damnation could see the light and be saved.  </p>
<p>&gt;&gt;Other than the teaching on female ordination, the Church has changed its stance on every issue above.</p>
<p>Indeed. And thanks to her modernization and adjustment to the spirit of the times and fashions of the world countless millions souls are lost. The Truth is timeless, whether we like it or not. The fact that modern man no longer believes in &#8220;outdated&#8221; and &#8220;silly&#8221; concepts like sin, hell, etc doesn&#8217;t change anything. (In any case, he will believe when he gets there.)</p>
<p>So, now to the original issue&#8230;</p>
<p>As for the women clamoring for ordination &#8211; they most definitely do not have an actual vocation, for a vocation to priesthood is not a mere attraction one has, but is a call from God. Hence it&#8217;s absurd to claim theirs is a true vocation. Furthermore, they are not even Catholics, because if they were, they would not reject and rebel against divine law, Church tradition, canon law, and reject all authority, hierarchy and divine order, nor would they aim for sacrilege and mockery of God. What they are saying is, I am a law unto myself, I will do it my way and exalt myself.</p>
<p>Yet this is not about us and our will but about God. Priestly office is not meant for the honor or advancement of man but for service to God and the Church.</p>
<p>History, ever since the Apostles and early Fathers, shows the first Christians believed that Christ intended only men to become priests. (The heretical gnostic sect allowed women in priestly roles, which was duly condemned by the Church.) This was an unquestioned tradition from the very beginning. (The Protestant heretics changed the role of their priesthood from the 16th cent on. And pagans, of course, always had female priestesses&#8230; it&#8217;s fitting that these calls for women&#8217;s ordination are so widespread during these neo-pagan times. That, incidentally, also means that the Apostles preaching the Gospel to the Greco-Roman world, with its pagan gods and priestesses, could have ordained women if this was simply about cultural norms and not about remaining faithful to the Lord and His will.)  </p>
<p>It remains a fact that Jesus, in His selection of male Apostles, chose men to be His priests. (Those who are not happy with this &#8220;discrimination&#8221; and &#8220;sexism&#8221; need to take it up with Him.)<br />
That has nothing to do with inferiority or discrimination and everything with God&#8217;s plan for His Church. After all, the most perfect creation, Bl. Virgin Mary, Mother of God and Mother of the Church, wasn&#8217;t made a priest. As Pope Innocent III wrote in early 13th cent: &#8220;Although the Blessed Virgin Mary surpassed in dignity and in excellence all the Apostles, nevertheless it was not to her but to them that the Lord entrusted the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven&#8221;. (And of course throughout Church history women played a very important role, incl the many great saints, founders of religious order, visionaries, countless holy religious and of course mothers of families passing on the faith to next generations.)</p>
<p>Christ, at the Last Supper, instituted the sacred priesthood through the sacrament of Holy Orders, in order to continue His divine mission on earth. He chose men to do His work for Him and gave these men, the priests, the power to bring sanctifying grace to us (which is necessary for salvation). Priesthood is both a great gift and the greatest responsibility &#8211; for it is responsibility over souls. (Women, who tend to demand all the rights without any of the corresponding responsibilities, should take a note of that.) The priest is the instrument our Lord has chosen; He acts through His priests who exercise His authority. Nobody but ordained priests can turn bread into the body of Christ, forgive sins, etc. </p>
<p>However, the greater the grace the more severe the punishment for sin for priests who fail to work for the salvation of souls. It is not up to the priest (nor up to the Church) to test novel ideas. God doesn&#8217;t need our advice, He doesn&#8217;t need us to give Him new ideas, He is timeless, He doesn&#8217;t need to get updated to fit the fashions of the day and the modern liberal sensitivities of a feminized society.</p>
<p>As said above by John Khoo -<br />
A priest is an alter Christus &#8211; another Christ. He, by the power of his sacred ordination, acts in persona Christi (in the Person of Christ). During the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass the priest acts in the place of Christ who uses him to offer Himself in sacrifice to the Father, in an unbloody renewal of Calvary. In the Mass, the priest, acting in the Person of Christ, consecrates the Host saying, &#8216;This is My Body&#8217; and &#8216;This is the Chalice of My Blood&#8217; &#8211; he does not say, &#8216;This is the Body of Christ,&#8217; nor &#8216;This is the Chalice of His Blood&#8217;. Similarly, the priest &#8211; acting in the Person of Christ &#8211; says &#8216;I absolve thee from thy sins&#8217;; rather than &#8216;Christ absolves thee from thy sins&#8217;. As Christ is a man, so His priest, who acts in the Person of Christ, must be a man.</p>
<p>Further, Christ is the Bridegroom and Head of the Church. His sacrifice on Calvary is the consummation of His marriage to the Church, His bride. Therefore it is man &#8211; based on his physical nature &#8211; who has the ability to receive Holy Orders; it would be impossible for a woman to truly and sacramentally act in the Person of the Bridegroom. That doesn&#8217;t take away from the nature of women, just as not being able to bear children doesn&#8217;t take away from the nature of men. It simply means the Almighty and All-knowing God has chosen it to be that way. Just as it is not possible for a man to be a mother, it is not possible for a woman to be a (validly ordained) priest. Man and woman each have their own role and function. It&#8217;s only our deluded (er, I meant &#8216;enlightened&#8217;) society that pretends men and women to be equal (as in identical/interchangeable) and to have no distinct roles and abilities.    </p>
<p>In a sane society this [women priesthood] would not even be a matter of discussion, much less dispute. Alas, ours is as insane and unhealthy a society as there can ever be&#8230; We should certainly pray for these confused and deluded souls, but we must not indulge them by listening to their entirely unreasonable demands and complaints.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Laceagate</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2013/01/03/thank-god-some-of-our-enemies-are-idiots/#comment-11409</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laceagate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 19:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=2782#comment-11409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This was absurd. That&#039;s 3 minutes of my life I can&#039;t ever get back.

I have noticed the people often making &quot;pro-women&#039;s ordination&quot; arguments ignore the far-reaching consequences to the faith. If anyone who supports women&#039;s ordination bothers to note, every single Christian faith ordaining women has eventually become trapped into a fork: on one direction the church continues to fall into depravity, and the other direction is schism. Has anyone bothered to look at what has happened to the Anglican church? The Episcopalian? The Lutheran? 

The ordination of women always serves as an illusion of a high point, when in reality afterwards there is a plummet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was absurd. That&#8217;s 3 minutes of my life I can&#8217;t ever get back.</p>
<p>I have noticed the people often making &#8220;pro-women&#8217;s ordination&#8221; arguments ignore the far-reaching consequences to the faith. If anyone who supports women&#8217;s ordination bothers to note, every single Christian faith ordaining women has eventually become trapped into a fork: on one direction the church continues to fall into depravity, and the other direction is schism. Has anyone bothered to look at what has happened to the Anglican church? The Episcopalian? The Lutheran? </p>
<p>The ordination of women always serves as an illusion of a high point, when in reality afterwards there is a plummet.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Proph</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2013/01/03/thank-god-some-of-our-enemies-are-idiots/#comment-11404</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Proph]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 18:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=2782#comment-11404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The normative prohibition on the laity carrying out baptisms is canonical, not sacramental. It&#039;s done so that the Church can witness and therefore record baptisms. Again, anyone can baptize sacramentally: Catechism itself witnesses to this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The normative prohibition on the laity carrying out baptisms is canonical, not sacramental. It&#8217;s done so that the Church can witness and therefore record baptisms. Again, anyone can baptize sacramentally: Catechism itself witnesses to this.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: buckyinky</title>
		<link>http://orthosphere.org/2013/01/03/thank-god-some-of-our-enemies-are-idiots/#comment-11403</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[buckyinky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 18:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthosphere.org/?p=2782#comment-11403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;So, we just come back to, “Men can be like Christ and women cannot?” Case closed then.&lt;/i&gt;

Too simplistic.  Why not men can be like Christ in certain ways that women cannot?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So, we just come back to, “Men can be like Christ and women cannot?” Case closed then.</i></p>
<p>Too simplistic.  Why not men can be like Christ in certain ways that women cannot?</p>
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